United States is a failed state

[CandyMan]

Do u even read Alexei??

Hamas (حماس Ḥamās, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement") is a Palestinian Islamic organization with a socio-political wing[5][6] and a paramilitary force, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.[2][3] After winning a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament in the January 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections,[7] and defeating rival Palestinian party Fatah in a series of violent clashes, since June 2007 Hamas has governed the Gaza portion of the Palestinian Territories. The European Union,[8] Israel,[9] Japan,[10] Canada,[11] and the United States[12] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

After Hamas's election victory, conflicts arose between Hamas and Fatah.[13][14] Following the June 2007 Battle of Gaza, Hamas retained control of Gaza and its officials were ousted from positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank.[15][16] Israel and Egypt then imposed an economic blockade on Gaza.[17] In June 2008, Hamas ceased rocket attacks on Israel following an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, but attacks by other organizations continued despite Hamas efforts to prevent them.[18] Two months before the end of the six-month ceasefire the conflict escalated, after a November 4 Israeli incursion into Gaza killed seven Hamas militants, and this led to a renewal of Hamas rocket attacks.[18][19] In late December 2008, Israel attacked Gaza,[20] withdrawing its forces from the territory in mid-January 2009.[21]

Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.[22] However, in July 2009, Khaled Meshal, Hamas's Damascus-based political bureau chief, stated Hamas's willingness to cooperate with "a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict which included a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders," provided that Palestinian refugees be given the right to return to Israel and that East Jerusalem be recognized as the new state's capital.[23][24] Hamas has in the past described its conflict with Israel as political and not religious,[25][26][27][25] but some journalists and advocacy groups believe that the Hamas Charter and statements by Hamas leaders have been influenced by antisemitic conspiracy theories.[28]

We will never recognize the usurper Zionist government and will continue our jihad-like movement until the liberation of Jerusalem. ”

—Ismail Haniyeh, political leader of Hamas

Oeeeee Alexei, keep on playing the Devil's advocate!!!

Children as "human shields"

Israel has accused Hamas of using children as human shields. The Israeli government released video footage of Hamas in which it describes as two Hamas militants grabbing a young boy's arm from behind holding him to walk in front of them toward a group of people waiting near a wall.

[CandyMan]

CandyMan



Alexei Pro-Hamas

Hey Alexei ever wondered why Israel killed so many civilians???

[Alexei]

In case you haven't figured this out over the past 10 years I am not in lock-step with what the united states, canadian or whatever governments classify others as. The US has an extremely long and painful history of being very wrong that leads me to consider the evidence and decide for myself. The number of illegitimate conflicts with horriffic civilian deaths that the US has been involved in is staggering. Same goes for whatever other country is out there.

The United States and UK have a vested interest in the proliferation of the Israeli Jewish state. They're obviously not going to go against it in word, no matter what the evidence. I obviously recognize this fact, and obviously base my opinion on matters relating to this subject with it in mind.

That article also says that Hamas hasn't suicide bombed anything in 4 years and has now denounced the tactic.

Face it - Hamas is like the Mormon church. They have schools, hospitals, but they also have a security force. They have a definite political agenda. Considering every so often the Israeli army goes into their land and shoots up a bunch of civilians all of this seems somewhat justified.

First step: create the enemy. Sometimes this will be done for
you.

Second step: be sure the enemy you have chosen is nothing like
you.
Find obvious differences like race, language, religion, dietary
habits
fashion. Emphasize that their soldiers are not doing a job,
they are heatless murderers who enjoy killing!

Third step: Once these differences are established continue to
reinforce them
with all disseminated information.

Fourth step: Have the media broadcast only the ruling party's
information
this can be done through state run media.
Remember, in times of conflict all for-profit media repeats the
ruling party's information.
Therefore all for-profit media becomes state-run.

Fifth step: show this enemy in actions that seem strange,
militant, or different.
Always portray the enemy as non-human, evil, a killing machine.

Sixth step: Eliminate opposition to the ruling party.
Create an "Us versus Them" mentality. Leave no room
for opinions in between.
One that does not support all actions of the ruling party should
be considered a traitor.

Seventh step: Use nationalistic and/or religious symbols and
rhetoric to define all actions.
This can be achieved by slogans such as "freedom loving
people versus those who hate freedom."
This can also be achieved by the use of flags.

Eighth step: Align all actions with the dominant deity.
It is very effective to use terms like, "It is god's
will" or "god bless our nation."

Ninth step: Design propaganda to show that your soldiers
have feelings, hopes, families, and loved ones.
Make it cleat that your soldiers are doing a duty; they do not
want or like to kill.

Tenth step: Create and atmosphere of fear, and instability
and then offer the ruling party as the only solutions to comfort
the public's fears.
Remembering the fear of the unknown is always the strongest
fear.

[L33t]

just throwing this out there, but when i was reading that quote it fit almost perfectly with "1984" by George Orwell

[{BL}Octavian]

I didn't know we had a political agenda. Enlighten me Alexei.

[Gon]

Do u even read Alexei??

Hamas (حماس Ḥamās, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement") is a Palestinian Islamic organization with a socio-political wing[5][6] and a paramilitary force, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.[2][3] After winning a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament in the January 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections,[7] and defeating rival Palestinian party Fatah in a series of violent clashes, since June 2007 Hamas has governed the Gaza portion of the Palestinian Territories. The European Union,[8] Israel,[9] Japan,[10] Canada,[11] and the United States[12] classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

After Hamas's election victory, conflicts arose between Hamas and Fatah.[13][14] Following the June 2007 Battle of Gaza, Hamas retained control of Gaza and its officials were ousted from positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank.[15][16] Israel and Egypt then imposed an economic blockade on Gaza.[17] In June 2008, Hamas ceased rocket attacks on Israel following an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, but attacks by other organizations continued despite Hamas efforts to prevent them.[18] Two months before the end of the six-month ceasefire the conflict escalated, after a November 4 Israeli incursion into Gaza killed seven Hamas militants, and this led to a renewal of Hamas rocket attacks.[18][19] In late December 2008, Israel attacked Gaza,[20] withdrawing its forces from the territory in mid-January 2009.[21]

Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.[22] However, in July 2009, Khaled Meshal, Hamas's Damascus-based political bureau chief, stated Hamas's willingness to cooperate with "a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict which included a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders," provided that Palestinian refugees be given the right to return to Israel and that East Jerusalem be recognized as the new state's capital.[23][24] Hamas has in the past described its conflict with Israel as political and not religious,[25][26][27][25] but some journalists and advocacy groups believe that the Hamas Charter and statements by Hamas leaders have been influenced by antisemitic conspiracy theories.[28]

Most of the stuff you posted right there conveyed Hamas in a better way than I had previously acknowledged. What I highlighted in bold showed that Hamas was often reasonable, agreeing to cease-fires until Israeli offensive actions. What is so unreasonable about wanting the land that Israel took by force back? In fact, it still gives the Israeli's a majority of the land.

Children as "human shields"

Israel has accused Hamas of using children as human shields. The Israeli government released video footage of Hamas in which it describes as two Hamas militants grabbing a young boy's arm from behind holding him to walk in front of them toward a group of people waiting near a wall.

WOW ISRAEL SAYS IT SO IT MUST BE TRUE CERTAINLY NOT PROPAGANDA Even if two guys did take children as human shields, does that reflect the ideals of an entire organisation? No, it just shows that two out of 50,000 people are cowards. Big funking observation that is. I'm pretty sure the same odds would apply if something like this happened in the streets of the town I live in. Does that make my town crazy, dirty, bloodlusting terroists? No.

I should probably mention through all this that I do not actually side with Hamas in the conflict. Both sides are equally douchebaggy and should wake up to themselves. However, I'm not letting some crazy loud mouthed lout like Candyman just ran in and say whatever he wants.

[Jugerzz]

What's really at issue here, what is separating them, is religion and it's shitty old books. It never, and I do mean never, brings people together. It's a tool for separation. Love thy neighbor, but what's not said is that your neighbor is only he who ascribes to the same religion as you.

It infects a culture, and arises to importance to the point where it becomes the defining feature of the people. It's how you introduce yourself to others. I'm Christian, you say. Or, I'm Muslim. funk, when Albanians ask me, and I mean old Albanians, even I have to say I'm Orthodox.

Oh, and the only one opposed to a two state solution is Israel. Just saying.

[L33t]

What's really at issue here, what is separating them, is religion and it's shitty old books. It never, and I do mean never, brings people together. It's a tool for separation. Love thy neighbor, but what's not said is that your neighbor is only he who ascribes to the same religion as you.

It infects a culture, and arises to importance to the point where it becomes the defining feature of the people. It's how you introduce yourself to others. I'm Christian, you say. Or, I'm Muslim. funk, when Albanians ask me, and I mean old Albanians, even I have to say I'm Orthodox.

Oh, and the only one opposed to a two state solution is Israel. Just saying.

post

[{BL}Octavian]

What's really at issue here, what is separating them, is religion and it's shitty old books. It never, and I do mean never, brings people together. It's a tool for separation. Love thy neighbor, but what's not said is that your neighbor is only he who ascribes to the same religion as you.

It infects a culture, and arises to importance to the point where it becomes the defining feature of the people. It's how you introduce yourself to others. I'm Christian, you say. Or, I'm Muslim. funk, when Albanians ask me, and I mean old Albanians, even I have to say I'm Orthodox.

Oh, and the only one opposed to a two state solution is Israel. Just saying.

post

lols. That logic suxors.

Anyways, a two state solution is impossible. Even if it was, of course israel would be opposed to it for reasons laying in the aforementioned security dilemma.

[Jugerzz]

I forgot about that one time two different religions were used to peacefully bring two people together to live in peace and harmony. It's not like it's consistently been used to boost xenophobia, fuel wars, and make dead martyrs out of fools. Oh right, but it helped you get through that one tough time you had. That's cool, scro.

Actions speak louder than words, and you can't tell me with a straight face their move to systematically kill and/or drive out Palestinians out of Israel is done solely for security reasons. Israel is one of the most powerful nations on earth. Don't let it's territorial size fool you. It can destroy the world dozens of times over if it were so inclined. It does not have to fear a few pissed off (justifiably so if you ask me) Palestinians with shitty mortars, yet that's not stopping them from using it as a pretense to launch full military assaults and blockades against an entire Palestinian population. You want medical aid? funk that shiz! This is national security!

[{BL}Octavian]

Well someone obviously didn't read my posts

I seem to be sensing some bitterness and hostility coming from you jugz. Just because we aren't on your intellectual level and don't have the strength to throw away our crutches yet doesn't mean that you should be condescending towards us. Shouldn't you be setting a better example for someone that so strongly promotes atheist moralism?

[CandyMan]

Gon your f*cking blind, did u not see what i posted?? Go google something!

[Gon]

Gon your f*cking blind, did u not see what i posted?? Go google something!

You're the funking blind one dumb shiz. You just didn't thoroughly read what you posted. There was just as much, if not more information supporting Hamas as denouncing them. I don't need to google anything! Even the information that is supposed to denounce Hamas supports my view!

[Alexei]

I didn't know we had a political agenda. Enlighten me Alexei.

Can you disambiguate "we"? (and yeah sorry it might take me a couple of days to answer... I'm super busy with college and don't really have any spare time anymore so I don't even visit this place every day )

[CandyMan]

Gon your f*cking blind, did u not see what i posted?? Go google something!

You're the funking blind one dumb shiz. You just didn't thoroughly read what you posted. There was just as much, if not more information supporting Hamas as denouncing them. I don't need to google anything! Even the information that is supposed to denounce Hamas supports my view!

lol did u not see the picture i posted??? Gon don't make a fool of yourself, it's pathetic already.

[Gon]

Gon your f*cking blind, did u not see what i posted?? Go google something!

You're the funking blind one dumb shiz. You just didn't thoroughly read what you posted. There was just as much, if not more information supporting Hamas as denouncing them. I don't need to google anything! Even the information that is supposed to denounce Hamas supports my view!

lol did u not see the picture i posted??? Gon don't make a fool of yourself, it's pathetic already.

What's more pathetic is that you would condemn an entire organisation based on the actions of two men. I already explained this. If you're too ignorant to read it and try and understand, I'm not going to bother wasting my energy on typing any further responses to you.

Sweet mother of god you're an ignorant tool. How can you call someone else pathetic when you seem to condemn everything a race does because of their race? You are pathetic.

[Jugerzz]

Well someone obviously didn't read my posts

No, I did. They just lacked any reason. I posted the pic, and you explained it away with the blanket statement, "SECURITY, THATS WHY."

Just because we aren't on your intellectual level and don't have the strength to throw away our crutches yet doesn't mean that you should be condescending towards us.

I know you're trying to do an us vs you thing here by portraying me as a snob, but you're also sort of just admitted your religion is a momentary crutch only those with lesser intellect and strength than me need, and THAT does mean I should be condescending towards the "us" you refer. JUS' SAYING.


Gon,

Tool is a good word here.

[Alexei]

Gon your f*cking blind, did u not see what i posted?? Go google something!

You're the funking blind one dumb shiz. You just didn't thoroughly read what you posted. There was just as much, if not more information supporting Hamas as denouncing them. I don't need to google anything! Even the information that is supposed to denounce Hamas supports my view!

lol did u not see the picture i posted??? Gon don't make a fool of yourself, it's pathetic already.

Yes lets nuke them all to hell because two of their security forces used a child as cover? I mean seriously dude. Hamas's paramilitary wing is a bunch of teenagers with weapons and an axe to grind against Israel for killing their mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters. They're not a trained military force. Hence why they take such heavy casualties when they encounter a trained military force (i.e. israeli army). They're a neighborhood security coalition not an army.

[CandyMan]

What's more pathetic is that you would condemn an entire organisation based on the actions of two men.

Now your just being funny!

[{BL}Octavian]

Well someone obviously didn't read my posts

No, I did. They just lacked any reason. I posted the pic, and you explained it away with the blanket statement, "SECURITY, THATS WHY."

Just because we aren't on your intellectual level and don't have the strength to throw away our crutches yet doesn't mean that you should be condescending towards us.

I know you're trying to do an us vs you thing here by portraying me as a snob, but you're also sort of just admitted your religion is a momentary crutch only those with lesser intellect and strength than me need, and THAT does mean I should be condescending towards the "us" you refer. JUS' SAYING.


Gon,

Tool is a good word here.

Jugz you have obviously never studied up on the philosophy of international relations. If you want to understand why israel does what they do read Waltz and Mearsheimer on Neorealism (hint:not wikipedia). Or you could continue to post maps and regurgitate what someone else told your or what you read in the news and pretend like you know what you're talking about. I also lol at the fact that you think the size/power of the israeli military in relation to their neighbors means that they are secure.

Ever read crime and punishment? Your second comment made you sound exactly like Raskolnikov. The very thought that you have the right to, let alone should mistreat and act condescendingly towards others because you perceive that you are better than them causes your atheist morals to implode. Why not put a bullet through your kids head when he irritates you? After all you're better than him. Sounds like the same logic we used to wipe the americas clean of the natives, enslave africans, and kill the jews.

[CandyMan]

blockades against an entire Palestinian population. You want medical aid? funk that shiz! This is national security!

Lol you may to do some research on that part, god your misinformed.

[L33t]

blockades against an entire Palestinian population. You want medical aid? funk that shiz! This is national security!

Lol you may to do some research on that part, god your misinformed.

lol?

idk what to say anymore

[rouX]

This is very interesting.

I know nothing about the subject, but its a pretty good argument.

Although some people are saying biased things.

[L33t]

all i know is
Judaism came into the picture first around the 5th century bc(?)
christianity came from judaism decades after jesus' death but they didn't like it christians worshipped jesus and well all know how that goes l8r down the line
then the recognized start of islam came around the early-mid 600's when muhammad made his pilgrimage to mecca and l8r they claimed that abraham and jesus were prophets but muhammad was the last and greatest prophet

of course there is a bunch of speculation that i really don't feel like getting into
just seems like everyone was trying to 1up each other lol

[Gon]

What's more pathetic is that you would condemn an entire organisation based on the actions of two men.

Now your just being funny!

Oh wow he's got a gun! He's holding the most used gun in the world, which is also used by government of multiple countries today! Oh noez Hamas is terrible!


HOLY shiz WHATS THAT ARNOLD HAS A KNIFE! CALIFORNIA HAS GONE ROGUE! I REPEAT CALIFORNIA HAS GONE ROGUE! THEY ARE NOW A TERROIST ORGANISATION FOR BRANDISHING A LETHAL WEAPON FUCKKKKKK LETS NUKE CALI AND MAKE BLOCKADES TO STOP THEM GETTIN ANYTHING THAT WILL BE GOOD BECAUSE WERE NOT OVEREACTING OR ANYTHING.

OMG DID YOU GUYS HEAR THAT LINCOLN GOT SHOT BY A GUN?>!?!?! A GUN WAS NEAR HIM! HE MUST BE A DIRTY TERROIST BECAUSE A GUN WAS NEAR HIM THAT MAKES HIM DIRTY ARAB HAMAS TERROIST! ALL OF AMERICA MUST BE EVIL!

blockades against an entire Palestinian population. You want medical aid? funk that shiz! This is national security!

Lol you may to do some research on that part, god your misinformed.

So the Flotilla incident? What was that exactly? Someone kicked someone elses dog, so Israel boarded a ship? OH WAIT, EEEERRRRRHHHHHHH *Candyman has just got the fail buzzer again* Hot damn, that whole thing wasn't about a blockade stopping medical and food aid was it? Oh wait, yes it was!

You're continuing to embarass yourself Candynoob, why do you think nobody else is arguing in your favour? What you say has no logic at all.